Comments on: I Hate Ant http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/ Alan Gutierrez blogs on software, social networks, and himself. Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:15:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: broukoid http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-43777 broukoid Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:53:28 +0000 http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-43777 Nice article - after many years of using "make" with gnu tools to build projects written in C, C++, python, perl, lisp, even java and some other languages I must use "ant" in java projects... I think the person who wrote "ant" must have really hated people.. I can't imagine any other explanation for such terrible tool... BTW - what is it in which "ant" really IS better than "make" ? The only thing I've ever heard is that "make" has this "tab vs space" problem... uhm.. is this really so big problem to set up your editor/IDE to use real tab characters when editing Makefiles? oh, and I must not forget - ANT is in java so it's 100% portable... uhm.. wait.. no.. no it isn't if you are doing anything non-trivial... "make" depends on underlying unix-like system (so it worked only on: Linux, AIX, HP*UX, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, Mac OS, Solaris, IRIX, MS Windows with CYGWIN .. I'm sure this is not complete list..) and its tools, and allows you to use _easily_ any other programs, scripts or anything... "ant" on the other hand is written in java and does not depend on your OS.. so instead of using some nice cooperating system tools like cat, grep, nc, wget, find, diff, sed and many others, we can use THE ONLY ONE TOOL ANYONE WOULD EVER NEEDED - java.. hmm.. so instead of one line in sed, I write 20 lines in java, creating new ant task.. great! .. and of course, you can call any script/program from your ant buildfile.. why not.. well.. maybe not because then you lose your 100% portability and still easy things are not easy and complicated things are even more complicated... hmm.. is this really better than "make" ? ...I miss "make" so much Nice article - after many years of using “make” with gnu tools to build projects written in C, C++, python, perl, lisp, even java and some other languages I must use “ant” in java projects…
I think the person who wrote “ant” must have really hated people.. I can’t imagine any other explanation for such terrible tool…
BTW - what is it in which “ant” really IS better than “make” ? The only thing I’ve ever heard is that “make” has this “tab vs space” problem… uhm.. is this really so big problem to set up your editor/IDE to use real tab characters when editing Makefiles?

oh, and I must not forget - ANT is in java so it’s 100% portable… uhm.. wait.. no.. no it isn’t if you are doing anything non-trivial…

“make” depends on underlying unix-like system (so it worked only on: Linux, AIX, HP*UX, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, Mac OS, Solaris, IRIX, MS Windows with CYGWIN .. I’m sure this is not complete list..) and its tools, and allows you to use _easily_ any other programs, scripts or anything…

“ant” on the other hand is written in java and does not depend on your OS.. so instead of using some nice cooperating system tools like cat, grep, nc, wget, find, diff, sed and many others, we can use THE ONLY ONE TOOL ANYONE WOULD EVER NEEDED - java.. hmm.. so instead of one line in sed, I write 20 lines in java, creating new ant task.. great! .. and of course, you can call any script/program from your ant buildfile.. why not.. well.. maybe not because then you lose your 100% portability and still easy things are not easy and complicated things are even more complicated… hmm.. is this really better than “make” ?

…I miss “make” so much

]]> By: Alan’s Blogometer » Blog Archive » Enter Mix http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-18438 Alan’s Blogometer » Blog Archive » Enter Mix Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:44:03 +0000 http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-18438 [...] I hate Ant. [...] [...] I hate Ant. [...]

]]> By: Alan Gutierrez http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-18205 Alan Gutierrez Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:24:38 +0000 http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-18205 See Paul, I'm not alone. Chuck, for me I don't see how XML is an expression of program logic, it's not, but I don't see why I'd want to so something so obviously programmatic, and building a computer program, without a real programming language. I can loop through the directories and... Uh, wait. There is no looping. I can recurse through the directories and... Uh, wait. There is no recursion. I can create a static fixed set of directories and type the same thing over and over again. That is what Ant considered simplicity. I was always happier with Make, bash and Perl. Ruby/Rake I'm sure has the same, yeah, I can do that, expressiveness, I'm sure. See Paul, I’m not alone. Chuck, for me I don’t see how XML is an expression of program logic, it’s not, but I don’t see why I’d want to so something so obviously programmatic, and building a computer program, without a real programming language.

I can loop through the directories and… Uh, wait. There is no looping. I can recurse through the directories and… Uh, wait. There is no recursion. I can create a static fixed set of directories and type the same thing over and over again. That is what Ant considered simplicity.

I was always happier with Make, bash and Perl. Ruby/Rake I’m sure has the same, yeah, I can do that, expressiveness, I’m sure.

]]> By: Chuck http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-18198 Chuck Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:40:16 +0000 http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-18198 This is one of the funniest posts I have come across. I say that because I just lost a day of my life trying to do trivial tasks, but ANT made it exceedingly painful. As I was searching the web for help I came across your post and throughout the last day those very words had been echoing through my head. Our current build system is based on ANT, thus I have no choice. I could have done the same thing in Ruby/Rake in 2 hours or less. I heartily concur on all your points. This is one of the funniest posts I have come across. I say that because I just lost a day of my life trying to do trivial tasks, but ANT made it exceedingly painful. As I was searching the web for help I came across your post and throughout the last day those very words had been echoing through my head. Our current build system is based on ANT, thus I have no choice. I could have done the same thing in Ruby/Rake in 2 hours or less. I heartily concur on all your points.

]]> By: Alan Gutierrez http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-14687 Alan Gutierrez Wed, 30 May 2007 20:06:48 +0000 http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-14687 Maven is Ant compounded. Maven makes me seethe. It is pestilence. Maven is Ant compounded. Maven makes me seethe. It is pestilence.

]]> By: Paul Christmann http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-14682 Paul Christmann Wed, 30 May 2007 19:18:41 +0000 http://blogometer.com/post/i-hate-ant/#comment-14682 Wow. What bile. I use Ant. I like it. I use it to manage about a half-dozen related projects in a single svn repository. I like it because I found it quite manageable to make a simple build file that I can extend with different behaviors in different projects. Yep, it took a while to get it right. It was not trivial. One time I felt the need to use the antcontrib for loop. Its still in my build files, but the functionality that it implements is now obsolete. In that sense, ant was write: I didn't need that logic. I just hadn't realized it yet - and I wouldn't realize it until I did it and discovered it was pointless. Yes, Ant has warts, repository management being far and away the largest (in my humble opinion). Exploring maven is always on my to-do list. But much as you express fear of ant becoming a project itself, taking you away from your real project, I resist moving to a different "better" system: doing so will become a project itself. And as it stands now, I don't even notice my build. It just works. I steadfastly believe that there is no perfect build system. Each build system has staunch defenders and just-as-staunch ridiculers. Build systems are inherently complex, and inherently customized by the project they are used in and the developer using it. Ant works for me - sorry it doesn't for you. But I'd love to hear you try to convince me to use Maven. I want to, but I don't want to invest the time it would take to rewrite my builds. Wow. What bile.

I use Ant. I like it. I use it to manage about a half-dozen related projects in a single svn repository. I like it because I found it quite manageable to make a simple build file that I can extend with different behaviors in different projects. Yep, it took a while to get it right. It was not trivial.

One time I felt the need to use the antcontrib for loop. Its still in my build files, but the functionality that it implements is now obsolete. In that sense, ant was write: I didn’t need that logic. I just hadn’t realized it yet - and I wouldn’t realize it until I did it and discovered it was pointless.

Yes, Ant has warts, repository management being far and away the largest (in my humble opinion). Exploring maven is always on my to-do list. But much as you express fear of ant becoming a project itself, taking you away from your real project, I resist moving to a different “better” system: doing so will become a project itself. And as it stands now, I don’t even notice my build. It just works.

I steadfastly believe that there is no perfect build system. Each build system has staunch defenders and just-as-staunch ridiculers. Build systems are inherently complex, and inherently customized by the project they are used in and the developer using it. Ant works for me - sorry it doesn’t for you.

But I’d love to hear you try to convince me to use Maven. I want to, but I don’t want to invest the time it would take to rewrite my builds.

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